Putnam/ Dougherty family genealogy

Posts tagged ‘Richmal Hall’

#8 The Hall Family

Do you have reoccurring family names that appear not to connect? I have three (3) different Hall family lines. I wonder what the most anyone has, that do not connect in say, 5 generations?

The Hall family in my British line starts with my favorite Richmal Hall (my maternal 2x great grandmother) who married John Woolley Heap on July 23, 1857 (160 years ago). Richmal was born in 1834, making her 23 years of age when she married John Woolley Heap. John was the son of a Publican. A publican runs a pub and may or may not have rooms to rent. Henry, John’s father was also listed as a brewer and an Auctioneer in the various censuses. Richmal’s father was an Iron Moulder. So how did these two get together? Richmal’s father was Samuel Hall. Samuel appears to have married twice and his 2nd wife Sarah Coe he married on 2 January 1820 in Stockport, Cheshire England and Richmal was baptized on 18 February1835 in Ashton under lyne, Lancaster England. I have not been able to connect Samuel to the next generation back. This family lived in the area where they seem to move back and forth from Cheshire to Lancashire several times in their lifetime. There are several Samuel Hall’s recorded in the parish churches in this area about 1798. Since Samuel was an Iron Moulder was his father of a similar trade? If the naming pattern follows, his father may have been John Hall since his first son is  John Hall. So far this is a very incomplete line with a very common name.

Another Hall Line I have been working on starts with Mary Agnes Hall who was the first wife of Joseph Ferguson. This would also be my maternal 2x great grandmother. This Hall was born in upstate New York. I have proved that her maiden name was Hall from two of her sons marriage records that list mothers maiden name. Yet on her death record her mothers name is listed as Ester Hall and her father is simply listed as Lambert. So this line is a quagmire. Was she illegitimate?

My third Hall line is on my paternal 3x great grandmother Betsy Dickey Hall born 26 May 1784 in New Hampshire, wife of Timothy Putnam. Other family trees on line list John Hall and Jane Patten as Betsy’s parents, but I have found no records to confirm this.

After several months I am done with the Hall Line for 12 Family Lines 12 months. Next will be the Heap Line.



Anne Hall – Homesick?

A “big thank you” to my sister for the two posts on the Clough’s. She will be back with more! The Clough’s have been a very interesting branch of our tree to learn about. They are part of that early California pioneering group that came west and stayed. Making us fourth generation Californians. Many immigrants that made their move to the United States from England and Europe stayed to build a home and family in this young country just as the Clough’s did in the new California.
But sometimes they went back.
What was their motivation to move and then why would they return to their motherland?
That was my question this week when I was looking at the records for Ann Hall, my 2x Great Aunt.

Ann Hall was the daughter of Samuel Hall and Sarah. I had been looking for Sarah’s maiden name and reported on finding it in my blog last month “Who were Richmal Heap’s Parents?”.

Ann was a sister to Richmal that I had not been paying attention to. After writing that blog a cousin, Mike, commented that, William Parkin, one of the executors of Samuel Hall’s will, was married to his, Samuel’s, daughter Ann. I had, when I first found the probate index, been curious about who William Parkin was. I knew that he had lived next door to Samuel and his wife in the 1861 UK Census and was also an Iron Moulder. Thinking that while he was much younger than Samuel, maybe William had been an apprentice under Samuel and thought of as a part of the family. Well according to cousin Mike he was a part of the family. So I started looking at William Parkin and his wife Ann.

Just love having all these distant cousins chiming in on my blog and making me take a closer look at some of these relatives and discovering their very interesting stories.

Well, back to Ann…..

Ann was first found in this 1841 UK census.

1841 UK Census Dunkenfield Lancashire

1841 UK Census
Dunkenfield Lancashire

In 1851 I have been unable to locate Samuel Hall or any of his children including his daughter Ann (e).

She does show up in a Marriage Index for St. Michael’s in Ashton under Lyne. That is dated 4 June 1857. Husband William Parkin whose father is noted as Edward Parkin marries Anne Hall daughter of Samuel Hall.

In the 1861 UK Census you can see that William and Anne are living next door to Samuel Hall, and both Samuel and William are listed as Iron Moulders.

1861 UK Census St Michael Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire

1861 UK Census
St Michael Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire

Ann and William’s son, John C., is listed as born in America while their second son Samuel E. is shown born in Lancaster, Ashton. In 1861 Samuel is only 1 year old. That means they had to have returned no later then 1860.  I then decided to look at all the census for John C. (Charles).

In the 1871 UK Census we see that he is shown born in “America, Columbus, Ohio”. It is really great to get specifics like this on the census.

1871 UK Census St Michael Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire

1871 UK Census
St Michael Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire

Here in 1871 we see there are two more boys born to William and Ann: William E, and Thomas H., both born in Lancashire, Ashton U Lyne.

So now I dash off to see if I can locate William and Ann traveling to and from America. They are in Ashton under Lyne on 4 June 1857 when they marry in the Parish Church (St. Michaels) and John C. is born in Columbus Ohio in 1858. Samuel is born in 1860 in Ashton under Lyne so those are my search parameters.

During this period travel between England and America is by Packet (sailing ship) and Steamer. Ships left Liverpool England on a regular schedule to three different ports in the United States: Boston, Philadelphia, and New York.

Sailing Notice New York Times May 32, 1855 Courtesy Smithsonian Institution Libraries

Sailing Notice New York Times May 31, 1855
Courtesy, Smithsonian Institution Libraries

(click on image to enlarge)


I have been unable to locate them on either outward bound from Liverpool or inward bound. Liverpool is about 50 miles from Ashton under Lyne and was more than likely their port of departure. I have all sorts of stories running around in my mind about what would have caused them to travel to America and then return to England. The political climate in the United States in the late 1850’s was quite volatile. Things where heating up toward the Civil War.  Iron was being cast into lots of everyday items. Iron stoves, irons to press clothes, bedframes and door hardware and more specific items such as machine parts for manufacturers. William could have work in many different industries as an Iron Moulder. Did he travel to America for a specific job? Did he have family that had moved there earlier? Why Columbus? In Columbus, Ohio the Ohio Statehouse was opened in 1857.

Columbus Ohio 1857 Cityscape Prints Collection, Library of Congress

Columbus Ohio 1857
Cityscape Prints Collection, Library of Congress

Columbus does not look like a thriving metropolis. Were they just visiting?

In 1881 UK Census all of William and Anne’s boys are at home.

1881 UK Census St. Peter Oldham Lancashire

1881 UK Census
St. Peter Oldham Lancashire

In  this census we see the family living at 307 Ashton Road. This is what it looks like today.

Google Earth showing 307 Ashton Road, Oldham

Google Earth showing 307 Ashton Road, Oldham

Well, across the street is  vacant land so they could have been on either side of the street. These are the only buildings at that point on Ashton Road today.

In the 1881 census we see that John C. is 23 years old and listed as an Iron Moulder place of birth U.S. America British Sub.. Samuel E. is 21 and listed as a machinist born in Ashton, Lanc.. Wm. E 19 assist School Man (?) and Thos. H. 16  a Joiners Apprentice.

1891 UK Census Oldham, Lancashire

1891 UK Census
Oldham, Lancashire

In 1891 William and Ann are still living at 307 Ashton Road in Oldham and John Charles now 33 and the only one at home with them. The next census finds them living in the same place and John Charles is now married to a Sarah F.

1901 UK Census Oldham, Lancashire

1901 UK Census Oldham, Lancashire

In the 1911 census we find that William is no longer with us and John Charles is shown as head of household and still living at the same address on Ashton Road.

1911 UK Census

Ann is shown as being 82 years old and a widow.  John Charles and Sarah have been married for 18 years, meaning they were married about 1893 when John Charles was 35 years old. Note John Charles own signature at the bottom and their address.

In the 1903 Index of Probates and Wills I found William Parkin.

From the England and Wales National Probate Calendar

From the England and Wales National Probate Calendar

This is our William who died 2 April 1903. his effects are about the cost of a second class cabin in 1855 out of Liverpool to America.

I have no idea when Ann died but I will keep looking.

So still the question. Why did they travel all the way to Columbus Ohio sometime between 1857 1nd 1858 only to return to England by 1860? Maybe their return was simply a case of being homesick.


Who were Richmal HEAP’s parents?

My grandmother was named Ada Richmal Heap.  I had always been curious about my grandmothers middle name but only remembered that it had been a family name. Apparently she was named for both her grandmothers, Ada for her mother’s mother and Richmal for her father’s mother. I discovered who Richmal actually was when researching the Heap Family line. It was the marriage record that revealed her maiden name. (Click on images to enlarge.)

UK Parish marriage Record John Woolley Heap and Richmal Hall

UK Parish marriage Record
John Woolley Heap and Richmal Hall

Also listed on the record was her father.

Samuel Hall,  Moulder.

With a common name of Samuel Hall in England’s Cheshire/Lancashire area of Ashton -under Lyne, I really appreciate these helpful bits of information . Knowing he was an (iron) moulder narrowed the field down to a single individual. When looking for the Parish records for Richmal’s baptism I thought it would be straight forward because of her unusual first name. It became a little confusing to discover two Richmal Halls baptized in two different parishes just a few months apart.

Lancashire Parish Baptism Richmal Hall

Lancashire Parish Baptism
Richmal Hall ~ 18 Jan. 1835

The above baptism in the Parish of Aston-under Lyne show the parents of Richmal as Samuel and Sarah Hall, living in Newton, and Samuel’s trade as “Iron Moulder”.

The other Baptism for a Richmal is 6 July 1834 in the Parish of Bury, the parents are James and Richmal Hall of Redvales, and James’ trade is “Weaver”.  Richmal’s birth is listed as March 25, 1834.

Lancashire Bury Parish Richmal Hall not ours

Lancashire Bury Parish
Richmal Hall
not ours

This brought to mind how my mother named her son David and about 6 months later and 200 miles away her sister-in law also had a boy and named him David. Could this be what happened here? Are the two Richmal’s cousins?

So now that I have Richmal’s parent as Samuel and Sarah, but who was Sarah?

I found that Samuel Hall, a Bachelor, marries a  Sarah Marland on 10 May 1818 in the Parish of Stockport in Cheshire, England. The lesson here is once you find the information that fits do not stop looking because that may not be the end of the story.

Cheshire Marriage record Parish of Stockport Samuel Hall and Sarah

Cheshire Marriage record Parish of Stockport
Samuel Hall and Sarah Marland

In 1820 Samuel Hall, a Widower, married Sarah Coe on 2 January. Note that both of these records indicate Samuel Hall is an Iron Moulder.

Cheshire Marriages Parish of Stockport Samuel Hall and Sarah Coe

Cheshire Marriages Parish of Stockport
Samuel Hall and Sarah Coe

Therefore Samuel married Sarah Marland in 1818 and by January of 1820 Sarah has died and Samuel remarries a Sarah Coe.


In the 1841 UK Census for Cheshire Dunkenfield, Samuel is listed as 40 and an Iron Moulder, his wife is listed as Sally also 40. What happened to Sarah?

1841 UK Census Dunkenfield Cheshire

1841 UK Census
Dunkenfield Cheshire


Included in the household are John 20, Ann 22, Julia 15 a Bonnet maker,  Charles 15 , Ann 14, Martha 12, Ricahmal 7, Sarah 5, and Fanny 10 months.

I have been unsuccessful in locating Samuel, an Iron Moulder, in the 1851 UK Census. Lots of Samuel Halls in both Dunkenfield and Ashton-under Lyne, but none that have the right trade or family members. Looking for the sons in the 1851 census has not been fruitful either.

1861 UK Census Aston-under Lyne St Michaels parish

1861 UK Census
Aston-under Lyne
St Michaels parish

Again in the 1861 UK Census Samuel is shown alone with Sally. Who is Sally?

Probate index Samuel Hall

Probate index Samuel Hall

From the Probate index above we see that John Hall is Samuel’s son. In the 1841 census we can verify that John and Richmal (Richmal Baptised 18 Jan 1835) are the children of Samuel and Sarah Coe. There is a Charles Hall baptized  15 May 1825 at St Michaels in Aston-under Lyne to a Samuel and Sarah Hall. The Charles listed in the 1841 census is 15 making his birth about 1825 or 26. This gives me a reasonable assumption that Charles listed in the 1841 census is also Samuel and Sarah’s child.  There are two Ann’s listed in this census one being 22 and the other 14. Is Ann wife to John?If Samuel’s wife Sarah died prior to 1841 then some members of the household may be Sally’s children from a previous marriage. And depending on when Sarah died will indicate if any of the children could be from a third marriage of Samuel and Sally.

I will continue to look for baptismal records for children born to Samuel and Sarah. I still need death records for both Sarah Marland and Sarah Coe. In the meantime I can look to see if Samuel remarries in St. Michaels to a Sally. Or I may find a death record for a Sally Hall wife of Samuel. As usual while I have the answer to my initial question I now have half a dozen new questions.





52 Ancestors – Richmal Hall

My maternal 2X great grandmother had what I considered a very different name. Born Richmal Hall in 1834 to Samuel and Sarah Hall of Newton Lancashire England.

Richmal was my grandmothers middle name. I always thought it was a pretty name, and often wondered where it came from. I do not remember if grandma told me it was a family name or if I just assumed that. With the name “Richmal” I assumed it would be easy to locate records on this relative, and it was. I found in the Ashton under lyne records the baptismal record for Richmal Hall.

Baptismal Records Ashton under lyne Lancashire England

Baptismal Records
Ashton under lyne
Lancashire England

I also noted back in 2000 that there was more then one Richmal Hall born in Lancashire county England.  There was a Richmal Hall born/christened 18 October 1801 in Bury to a Samuel and Mary Hall; a Richmal Hall baptized on 6 July 1834 to James and Richmal Hall also of Bury;

When we look at Richmal Hall’s marriage record to John Woolley Heap we see that her father is Samuel Hall whose profession is listed as a Moulder. Therefore we are assured that we have the correct Richmal since the profession of her father on the above baptism record is Iron Moulder. The other Richmal’s baptized in Lancashire county had fathers that were in the cotton industry.

Marriage certificate John Woolley Heap Richmal Hall July 23 1857

Marriage certificate
John Woolley Heap
Richmal Hall
July 23 1857

I have not been able to find Richmal and her family in the 1841 or 1851 UK Census. The only possibility I have come up with is the item below.

1841  UK Census Dunkenfield

1841 UK Census Dukenfield, Stockport, Cheshire, England

Here we find a Samuel Hall about the right age and listed as an Iron Moulder. The child about the right age is Richmond who was originally listed as a female and then it was changed to male. Do you think this is our Richmal?

Once Richmal marries John Woolley Heap there are many records that document her and her family. If you look at the previous blog on John Woolley Heap you will find those records up until her death on 16 July 1888.

England and Wales National Probate Calendar Richmal Heap

England and Wales National Probate Calendar
Richmal Heap

Richmal is shown above as the wife of John Woolley Heap and late of 32 Adelside Street, Stockport in Lancashire County. Her personal estate only amounted to a little over £93.

In checking out “Google Earth” I could not come up with an Adelside Street in Stockport. Possibly the street no longer exists or has been renamed.



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